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We’ve been having a lot of trouble with A not wanting to clean up lately, at our house and at friends’ houses on playdates. At home, I can usually find some way to coerce her into getting the job done (“You can’t do X until you’ve cleaned up your blocks”). But when we’re playing at other people’s homes, and it’s time to leave, I have no leverage. She doesn’t want the fun to end, so she simply refuses to put a single item away. Brilliant!
I’ve tried reasoning with her, asking her if she played with the toys, and if so, who should be responsible for cleaning them up.
I’ve tried pointing out that the other kids are cleaning up.
I’ve tried putting her in timeout during the playdate.
I’ve tried putting her in timeout once we get home.
I’ve tried demonstrating what needs to be done by cleaning up myself and handing her toys to put away (which she simply throws to the ground).
I’ve tried praising the other children who are doing what they’re supposed to do.
I’ve tried explaining that she will be praised, too, for her efforts.
I’ve tried telling her that we can’t go to friends’ homes in the future if she won’t help clean up.
I’ve tried getting her to promise she’s going to help clean up right before we walk into a playdate.
I’ve tried telling her that big sisters (a title she’s really taken to) have to help clean up, and asking if she’s a baby or a big sister. Her response? “I’m a baby.”
Nothing works.
Each time, it’s the same story: I give her several minutes’ warning that it’s almost time to head home; she says, “No, I don’t want to go home!”; things spiral out of control.
One thing you should know about my child is that she’s incredibly stubborn. (Her father says she gets that from me.) If she doesn’t want to do something, she and I can sit and discuss/argue about it for thirty minutes without her giving in. She just will not budge, so I start to get frustrated and desperate that I have no way to make my toddler do what she must do. And, frankly, it’s embarrassing.
The last time this scenario transpired at a friend’s house, in an act of desperation, I told A she would have to go in timeout when we got home and she wouldn’t be able to play with any of her own toys after that. True to my word, she spent fifteen to twenty minutes in timeout at home, just sitting quietly, totally unfazed by the punishment. Of course, this is how she normally responds to timeout: no response at all.
Sitting quietly—being pulled away from the activity—doesn’t bother my child in the slightest. She acts like it’s a nice respite, in fact! I can keep going over to her and saying, “Are you ready to be finished in timeout?” and she’ll say, “No, not yet.” Eventually, way beyond the point when anyone would reasonably think you can/should keep a two-year-old in timeout, she’ll call me over with a smile and tell me she’s finished, at which point we’ll debrief on the experience that got her there in the first place. But all this doesn’t change her behavior.
And what about not having any toys to play with for the rest of the day. Yeah, she didn’t really seem to mind. She’d go to pick up an item, and I’d calmly remind her that she wasn’t allowed to play with it because she didn’t help clean up the last set of toys she used at her friend’s house, and she’d just put it back down. No big deal.
Then, after eating her dinner, she made her usual request for dessert. I explained that since she had told me she was a “baby”—not a big sister—and didn’t have to clean up, she wouldn’t be able to have dessert either, because babies don’t eat dessert. Did she kick and scream and throw a fit about it? Nope. That would make things too easy. She didn’t bat an eye. Nothing fazes this kid!
Now, I’ve done my reading. I found an article on Baby Center about “What to Do When Timeouts Don’t Work,” but they write nothing about strategies for the kid who doesn’t mind being in timeout for twenty minutes! And according to Parents.com’s “5 Ways to Get Your Kids to Listen,” which highlights techniques from “the Bible” on this subject (How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish), I’m already using some pretty reasonable parenting techniques:
- Providing information about why A needs to comply and help out
- Giving her a choice about whether she’d like to attend a playdate and help clean up, or not attend at all. Or, asking her which toys she’d like to clean up first.
- Stating my expectations for her behavior prior to us attending a playdate, repeatedly.
I’m stumped!! Please, please tell me: What would you do with a child for whom no punishment seems appropriate, or like punishment enough, because it won’t get her attention enough to change her behavior?
{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }
How old is she? With the caveat that I only have a 13 month old and learned everything I know about behavior from training my dog, I would suggest a couple of things:
1. Ignore undesirable behaviors. Saying anything at all constitutes attention and therefore is a reward.
2. In urgent situations (i.e. flagrant disobedience and actual danger), pick her up and remove her from the situation without saying a word.
3. Praise/reward good behavior the moment you see it. If she’s playing nicely or doing something good, use that as an opportunity to praise, reward, and pay her some attention rather than as an opportunity to get stuff done yourself.
4. Don’t worry about what the other parents think of whether or not she helps clean up / tantrums.
Example: Ask her to help clean up at the end of the playdate, and start cleaning up yourself. If she helps say, “Thank you so much, X! You are such a good helper!” and/or offer some sort of reward. If she doesn’t help, just ignore it. If she refuses to leave at the end, then you pick her up and remove her from the room. Don’t worry about negative commentary from other parents. This is a phase, and if you acknowledge the bad behavior then she wins.
Good luck!
Thanks for your input! Have you ever watched The Dog Whisperer? I always find there are so many similarities between training animals and raising kids
First, my daughter is 2.5, so we’re right at that critical age. You’re probably right that part of her goal is to get attention. It’s just so hard NOT to acknowledge the bad behavior when it’s repeated so often and on an issue that I feel is kind of non-negotiable. You know, how long am I going to have to clean up her toys? And if I keep doing it, won’t she just come to expect this? I don’t want to raise a little princess!
I think you’re right that this is a phase, but each and every phase feels like it’s going to last forever, doesn’t it?
Oh yes, the phases do seem to last forever. That is certainly true!
I guess the only thing I might add is that with your current approach, you’re making an issue over something that you can’t possibly win if she chooses to defy you. And it sounds like she’s figured that out.
Anyway, good luck! I look forward to hearing updates about what ended up working.
What kids that age have a tough time with are dealing with consequences that aren’t right in front of their faces. Offering up a punishment for when you get home may not be that compelling since its not in the here and now. How about you take A out and have her pick out a super special amazing “big sis” necklace or bracelet (age appropriate of course- maybe something sparkly from Claires!) Tell her that when she wears it, it means she’s showing everyone what a great big sister and big girl she is. Make sure she really loves it! Only let her wear it at first on special outings outside the house for play dates. Make a big deal about putting it on when you get there. Show up early to the end of the play date to make sure you’re not rushed for the clean up part. If she doesn’t want to clean up, then you’ll need to take away her beautiful necklace or bracelet since only responsible big girls get to wear it. It gives you something to work with right then as opposed to theoretical punishments. Just a thought. Keep us posted on how it all turns out!!
You know, this is a fantastic idea: to provide a compelling reward–on the spot–for good behavior! And I think a sparkly necklace or bracelet just might do the trick
The only change I’d make to the technique you’re suggesting is that I wouldn’t be able to let her wear the jewelry until after she had cleaned up. Otherwise, again, I would have no leverage. Plus, trying to take the jewelry from her once she’s become defiant would be nearly impossible. Once we get a little closer to my due date, I’m definitely going to take her over the Claire’s and let her pick out something special. Thanks for the great suggestion!
What a conundrum! It sounds like it is impossible to identify the “currency” she cares about in terms of consequences. (And lord knows that there is no reasoning with a smart 2.5 year old!) I honestly think you are doing some really good things and just hope that over time, she responds in a better way (ie, cleaning up). You are following the 3 guiding principles I try to parent with:
1. setting expectations/routines
2. providing clear directions, broken down into manageable steps
3. approaching task oriented activities with creativity and fun
I am not expert, and can’t say I’ve figured out how to solve this problem with a 3 and 4 year old, but just some reflections:
-Have you ever employed the use of a “clean up song?” They do that at my children’s school/daycare, and I think have the advantage of peer groups cleaning up at school, so when we sing the same song at home, it triggers something so that they are more apt to help…sometimes! (nothing is full proof)
-Have you tried to play specific games while cleaning up? “How do you think a mouse would clean up? How about an elephant?” Make some sort of silly association to clean up acting a certain way. Use tongs to pick things up. We have a huge plastic animal bin and we pretend that we are zoo keepers and have to lock the animals up at night, but are on an island a few feet away and toss them into the bin (okay, so they a lot of times throw and it gets out of hand…)
-Announce something fun to do once clean up is done. “After we put away toys, we are going to go outside and play.” Or, “we’ll have more time to bake dinner together because we are doing such a good job putting this away quickly.”
Something I used to do that worked, but might not seem to bother your daughter since she doesn’t seem to care if toys are taken away, is that I would say, “if you are not going to respect your toys, I am going to take them away and we will consider giving them to other kids who respect their toys.” I wouldn’t just deny them use of the toys, but literally take them away and put them in a huge box up on the counter for them to see. I’m sure a child psychologist would die knowing I said I am giving their toys to someone else, but I wanted them to know that their cleaning up served purposes: one, we needed a clean space to do something else, and two, we treat our personal items with respect. And if that was not done, then we would get rid of them. And I have actually gotten rid of a few cars and trucks as follow-through to when I did this.
I also agree that at her age, immediate consequences (say at a playdate) are helpful. The threat of quiet time/time out later in the day just won’t resonate–especially if she likes the quiet time. You can say “In 5 minutes, it will be time to clean up so we can go home. I am setting my watch.” I like to give a warning with eye contact and a physical component (ie, I put my hand on their hand, look them in the eye). And then in 5 minutes, I will say, “we are going home now. Please put the toys away.” I try to avoid asking “could you please clean up?” Asking them gives them a choice. It is *so* hard not to phrase things like a question, but I think makes a difference! And also avoid ending directions with “okay?”–”Put the toys away, okay?” It makes parents seem indecisive. (I started tracking how often I do this on a daily basis with my kids in general, and it is astonishing how often I say “okay” or ask them permission!) And sometimes I use my 3 finger rule and create 3 “tasks” to do in the clean up to make it more manageable, “Please put away One–the green dinosaur (and point to my finger) Two–the racecar (point to my finger), and Three (point to my finger)–the doctor kit.”
I think the hardest part is when you are on a playdate and don’t have much “currency” with consequences if they don’t pick up. What I find myself doing is that after I give the warning, provide very task oriented directions, if they still won’t clean up…I usually just end by saying, “We respect our friend’s toys and clean them up. If I clean up the toys, I will pick you up and we will leave immediately.” And then clean up, and sweep up my child grabbing my coat and stuff, say thank you, and leave without allowing them to do anything else.
Part of this is just such an age thing, and I think with consistency and modeling good behavior and establishing/communicating why you clean up (respect, opportunity to do other things, etc) it will start to work.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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Oh god, Alison. You are a wealth of information!! So many of these suggestions are things that I’m quite sure would work with A!
The zookeeper game would be wildly entertaining for her since she’s currently obsessed with Curious George, and so many of his adventures take place at the zoo. I’m going to have to be much more creative in our clean-up techniques, I can see
I have tried the whole “well, I guess you don’t deserve these toys right now” act, and I’ve even gone as far as putting some toys out in the garage on top of the garbage can for a few days. Unfortunately, that didn’t work for us. Weird, right?
I’m also going to revisit the way in which I inform A that it’s time to clean up, with physical and eye contact. She tends to be easily distracted, so I’m almost always getting down to her level to communicate, looking her in the eye, to make sure my message is clear. But maybe I haven’t been firm enough in the language I use, at least at first. By the third or fourth time I’m telling A to clean up, I’m definitely being plenty firm about my expectations, but by that point, it’s already too late.
I know we’ll get there, eventually. It’s just so tricky to negotiate on this point, because as I mentioned in my response to oldmdgirl, I want to make sure A understands that cleaning up is her responsibility, not mine. And waiting for this phase to pass (while I do the cleaning) feels a lot like giving my two-year-old the impression that mommy will do her work for her if she puts up enough of a fight. It isn’t easy! Thanks, again!!
Wow, that girl means business! You have a tough job! I’m impressed with what thoughtful responses this post generated. The other women seem to have some great ideas – much better than I could offer! My boys usually scream straight through timeout, so I have no experience with the opposite!
Hang in there, girl!
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